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Europe could set tax rate under carbon price link: inquiry
30/10/2012 - Linking the carbon price to overseas markets could see Europe setting the rate of Australia's carbon tax, a parliamentary inquiry has heard.
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The coalition has also raised doubts about the integrity of the European Union's emissions trading scheme (EU ETS), citing claims of fraud and manipulation within the scheme.
A package of bills tying Australia's carbon pricing mechanism to the EU ETS passed the House of Representatives earlier this month.
As well as linking the schemes, the legislation dumps a $15 floor price that would have applied once the carbon price moved to a floating market-based mechanism in 2015.
A parliamentary inquiry was held into the bills, and the report was tabled in the Senate on Monday.
Coalition senators urged the Senate to oppose the bills, warning linking the schemes would see the EU set the level of Australia's carbon tax.
The inquiry heard that under certain circumstances, Australia's carbon price could spike if the EU adopted a more ambitious target, restricted permits or if the Australian dollar waned against the euro.
Coalition senators also raised concerns about integrity issues surrounding the EU ETS, and claims it could expose Australian industry to risk.
The committee said there was no denying some business and industry groups believed Australia would be "surrendering" control over the carbon tax to the EU, which had faced its share of criticisms.
But it concluded there was "strong countervailing evidence" to suggest the EU ETS was robust and that Australia could enforce tough financial regulation.
The committee urged the Senate to pass the bills, arguing that linking the schemes would help Australia forge ties with emerging Asian markets and reduce emissions at the least cost.
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AW | 30/10/2012 10:14 1
Why would anyone have anything to do with the basket case called Europe Nice work Labor, I have never ever seen such a dysfunctional excuse of a government in my life and I have see a few come and go but nothing like this shambles.
Kermit | 30/10/2012 11:51 2
Oh! What a tangled web we weave.....the great unwashed, the sheep follow the path to the wolf's lair ready to jump to a certain death. The Climate Change conspiracy! Everyone laughed and scorned as the skeptics weighed the facts and looked deeply into the this tightly woven propaganda. From the very beginning I could not understand how educated people, the clever people from our clever country could imagine that man could make a difference to the climate across the world. We only affect less than one 1% of the atmosphere. How on earth could we reverse a natural phenomena by changing our life style. One solar flare will eliminate or effect the climate of the planet for more than 100 years of in one surge of energy, how do we anticipate man can affect this process, natural forces control Climate Change. It is about time for the people of this country to take a good look the the real purpose of the scam. The World economy is fragile at best and as the population increases the problem increases for the international banking system. By introducing a tax on everyone across the globe - Carbon Tax. The banks have the money to control the wealth of everyone. As countries go further into debit (Australia - AU$100,000,000 per day) the global banking system needs a tax to ensure continuity of revenue from all corners of the globe to sustain this. Eliminate the excessive INTEREST they charge on loans and we do not need this (Carbon) tax. Think about this please, the New World Order is playing out exactly as the skeptics predicted. Unfortunately those who have been duped will continue to dive deeper to cover their shame. Is it too late...will Tony Abbott be allowed to reverse the process of have Labor followed instructions from the World Bank, the instructions from higher up been set in stone. We wait and contemplate our fate!
Bert Stahr | 30/10/2012 12:06 3
Carbon tax, emission trading schemes, all massive lies to plunder entire economies for the benefit of the State. Remember all who read this, the State is your enemy, it will do all in it's power do enslave you and is doing a fair job of it now. Passing off carbon dioxide as a poisonous gas that will bring death to the world is just one whopper that only the ignorant could believe. That a trace gas 400ppm in the atmosphere is heating up the earth is as ludicrous as the belief of the invisible guy in the sky. Carbon dioxide levels are at a critically low level yet morons and those paid to say it want to pump it deep into the earth and keep it there forever. Without carbon dioxide plants die. Without plants animals die. These last 2 statements are probably too complex for most labor voters, and that's a worry.
VG | 30/10/2012 13:14 4
We don't need the carbon Tax? no, but she does. She needs all she can lay her grubby labor hands on to pay for her extravagances, such as her tythe to the world bank, her rent fee to get into the UN, the funds she splashed all around the world to buy votes to get into the UN, plus.....the list goes on. It's madness, the country can't afford it. If she had any aptitude at all for this she would support our own industries with that money, that would then automatically employ people, but they just throw money away, can't help themselves.
Geoff Thomas | 31/10/2012 07:52 5
Once one understands the actual role of green house gases on the climate of our earth it is not at all surprising that the increase caused by our vast burning of fossil fuels is causing climate forcing and well documented heating. Had we gone the other way, and decreased the amount of carbon dioxide by the amount we have added to it, there would soon be little life on earth. Anybody who takes the time to study the subject and read around would no longer come out with these foolish statements of Bert and Kismet (unless the carbon economy is paying them). If you think too much carbon dioxide is not harmful, have a look at Venus, it has heaps, and it's runaway greenhouse effect has vaporised its' oceans. Is that what you insane gibberers want to happen to our planet? If you want to get into conspiracy theory, look not just at banks but also the carbon economy, - they have a vested interest in continuing to burn coal and oil, it is called money. try thinking before you open your mouths guys.
Kermit | 31/10/2012 08:42 6
Geoff, you concern me....What on earth are you talking about, the vested interest in burning coal and oil and those pedalling Climate Change and Carbon Tax are one of the same people. Carbon Tax is just a worldwide tax with a rate controlled by the same people who regulate the interest rate we pay on inter-country loans. They are one or the same, this is the message I am trying to expose. You obviously have not discovered the links yet....As I said it is a tangled web we weave when we plan to deceive!
Geoff Thomas | 31/10/2012 09:41 7
Hi Kermit, one issue is global warming, which you deny in the teeth of reality, another issue is conspiracy groups etc, which is not related nor have you understood carbon tax if you think the coal and oil companies benefit from it. Next you will say the new world order caused the Hurricane in America.
Kermit | 31/10/2012 09:49 8
When we speak of "shallow" we are not referring to the depth of the hole we dig for ourselves. Take the time to seek the truth not the doctrine!
Geoff Thomas | 31/10/2012 11:04 9
Kermit, you didn't use the word "shallow" in any of your posts although I think it would be a good word to describe your thinking when you claimed that a 'One solar flare will eliminate or effect the climate of the planet for more than 100 years of in one surge of energy,' - whilst a solar flare might bring in more energy, most would go straight back out again, as the suns heat does, but an interesting side point is that now with the heat retaining carbon dioxide having doubled, that Solar flare would do more damage, - yet another reason to reduce our carbon emissions.
Kermit | 31/10/2012 14:03 10
I try not to make personal jibes.....not professional. However, as I pointed out earlier you tend to look too "shallow", you are missing the whole issue here, human influenced/related Climate Change is infinitésimal and beyond any influence or control of future human activity. The issue here is the whole Climate Change scam. It has nothing to do with the planet in relation to Climate/Severe Weather it is a new international tax system to control money, wealth and prosperity across the world and control over mankind by the NWO. While you people play your little Climate Change politics you are missing the processes in the background. They have sold the propaganda very well indeed. You chaps took the bait and will follow blindly into the lair.
Geoff Thomas | 31/10/2012 15:24 11
Kermit, you are losing it, you never used the word 'shallow' but your last post is in some ways clearer, your whole Conspiracy theory is founded on your not believing the stronger and stronger evidence that Climate Change is happening, and that it is human caused. You will send yourself mad, wearing wooly jumpers in the blazing sun, totally disbelieving the facts in front of your nose, - why don't you change your Conspiracy Theory? there are dozens out there, why pick one which causes you to have to lie to yourself? - and why pick one that if you look at it closely totally supports the status quo for the rich and conservative?
Bert Stahr | 1/11/2012 02:27 12
Geoff your use of Venus as an example of carbon dioxide endangering a planet borders on extreme stupidity. Venus is some 42,000,000 klms nearer the sun than earth. Unless you're one of those paid to peddle the lie you're a Chicken little fan. Try going back to grade school and learn a little science. Start with Henry's law. Your statement "Had we gone the other way, and decreased the amount of carbon dioxide by the amount we have added to it, there would soon be little life on earth." is your own contradiction of what your argument is. You need help.
Geoff Thomas | 1/11/2012 07:05 13
Sorry Bert, you need to spend 20 minutes reading about Venus, just Google Venus planet. Although Venus is 30% closer to the sun than the earth, it is surrounded by a highly reflective sulphuric acid layer that actually allows less heat to arrive than is the case on Earth, - that is why Venus is the brightest object in the sky after the sun and the moon. It is hotter than Mercury, which is much closer to the sun. Why Venus is so hot is that the atmosphere is 96.5% Carbon Dioxide, so has a massive greenhouse effect, that is why it is a good example to the self deluding climate change deniers, and if you had the brains you were born with you would have understood that my statement that had we removed as much carbon dioxide as we have added, instead, - ie all the carbon dioxide, there would soon be little life on earth, is absolutely true, and I think you need to understand why, because even though kids these days are taught about the green house effect in Primary school, you obviously don't, although I suspect won't, as it would interfere with your schizophrenic preference for conspiracy theories. Venus is an extreme example of the green house effect, are you brave enough to face that undeniable fact?
Kermit | 1/11/2012 07:35 14
Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier the propaganda machine was successful, there have been cases presented on both sides of the CC theory. When it can be proven that the numbers in the graph of doom have not been skewed, I will re-examine the Climate Change debate. However, in the meantime let's seek the truth behind the process. We are being duped by big brother and our only hope of recovery is the repeal of the Tax to save Australia from catastrophe. If China cannot guarantee she will comply, Australia sure as hell cannot afford this Tax. We have more to lose than China in this debacle. I seek the side of caution, we cannot afford the price....now or in the future!
Kermit | 1/11/2012 07:41 15
Geoff, so we increase the Carbon Tax to $50-100/tonne now and this will immediately reduce the Carbon Dioxide content on Venus if your theory works. A Carbon Tax will clean it up!
Bert Stahr | 1/11/2012 08:27 16
Venus does not reflect infra red. Then you compare 950,000 ppm to 400ppm. You need help.
Geoff Thomas | 1/11/2012 08:34 17
Hi Kermit, vague references to a 'propaganda machine' is not answering facts with other facts, - whilst it may have an element of truth for people who never think, it won't wash with clear thinkers. To have any credibility at all about numbers somewhere being skewed you have to produce those numbers and who skewed them and how that impacts on the undoubted increase in Carbon Dioxide in our atmosphere. Otherwise today would be the best day for you to re-examine the Climate Change debate, - with some humility might I suggest. China has a carbon policy rather similiar to Australia's, but more importantly is throwing resources at renewable energy more than anyone else on our planet. The Carbon Tax is already here and no catastrophe, caution would be more real if one would be cautious about increasing global warming instead of sky is falling little chickenery about one out of many much larger taxes. Not saying the world economy doesn't need huge re-structuring, but blaming everything on the carbon tax stretches credibility past breaking.
Kermit | 1/11/2012 10:12 18
You only listen to what you want to hear, this is obvious but we agree on one thing. That the Carbon Tax is here to restructure wealth across the world, guaranteeing we pay more for our presence. If you believe a foreign power or group should have control of our future wealth and destiny - heaven help us! I have difficulty passing the cue to the central system (NWO) to control the future of my children and my country. I guess you agree with micro chipping as well. Do you think it will solve your perceived Global Warming issues? You honestly believe man can reduce the CO2 content significantly, it is not I who believes in the chicken little story. I think that before you bless us with anymore of your fantasies that you examine the whole story and debate the issues I raise. Forget using a 5mm brush to paint an oil tanker, debate my original post.
Geoff Thomas | 1/11/2012 14:50 19
Hi Kermit, i did not agree that theCarbon Tax is here to re-structure the worlds wealth, that is some silly fantasy you have engendered along with that it will reduce CO2 on Venus. The original article postulated that the European price for Carbon will affect Australian rates, which is probably true, there is a case for the price of carbon to be an objective one, but I don't believe in nor see any connection with micro-chipping except your paranoid fantasies making putting a tax on Carbon some sort of take-over bid by the already ruling, (if you are to be believed) new world order. I am not interested in debating your mental states, only in getting rid of your wrong statements on global warming as they are what you use to justify your disease. You have not brought one single scrap of proof for your Climate change denying, almost certainly because you haven't any.
Kermit | 1/11/2012 15:57 20
What a bitter misguided little man... I wish you a full recovery!
Lincoln | 14/12/2012 08:08 21
I know I'm replying a little late...but anyway. Hey Geoff, how come you are the only person on this post advocating the CT? Why are there no others on your side, sticking up for you? Because they have finally realised that they, and also you, are wrong, and have come to realise the error of their ways? And did they come to realise this by actually listening to what people were trying to tell them? Or is it because they are so embarrassed about their position they don't want to stick up for it anymore? Also, has it ever occurred to you that the fact that receding ice in Iceland is revealing 400 year old villages’ points up the fact that climate change is just something that occurs naturally, periodically, and human actions have nothing to do with it??? Unless of course our ancestors back then were much more advanced than we think them to be, and had huge machines pumping out tonnes of CO2 daily…when they realised what they were doing, a stupid government put in a carbon tax, which caused the world to regress to a state it had been in hundreds of years earlier, and this wasn’t recorded because the people who thought this to be a good idea were so ashamed that any writing of it was punishable with death?
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